Comments on: five by five, in the pipe http://shaver.off.net/diary/2009/11/09/five-by-five-in-the-pipe/ noise from signal Thu, 10 Nov 2011 07:05:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Michael Kozakewich http://shaver.off.net/diary/2009/11/09/five-by-five-in-the-pipe/comment-page-1/#comment-140711 Michael Kozakewich Wed, 02 Dec 2009 16:43:04 +0000 http://shaver.off.net/diary/?p=3962#comment-140711 <p>I would go further and say that IE8 was the greatest Mozilla achievement, because it shows that you didn't just kick them into making one more half-hearted browser, but made them work at it until they got it right, and they finally came out with a modern-day standards-compliant (relatively) browser.</p> I would go further and say that IE8 was the greatest Mozilla achievement, because it shows that you didn’t just kick them into making one more half-hearted browser, but made them work at it until they got it right, and they finally came out with a modern-day standards-compliant (relatively) browser.

]]> By: shaver http://shaver.off.net/diary/2009/11/09/five-by-five-in-the-pipe/comment-page-1/#comment-140695 shaver Wed, 11 Nov 2009 03:34:54 +0000 http://shaver.off.net/diary/?p=3962#comment-140695 <p>Oh, nothing ironic about it at all: because of our work to show people that a better browser was possible and desirable, MSFT had to make a better browser for all the people who <em>didn't</em> know about or choose to use Firefox. My awkward phrasing there was just a reference to how I felt about IE7 at the time, even though typically one doesn't enjoy a competitor releasing a dramatic improvement to their own software.</p> <p>We can have more moments like that, and we will. (I think we did with Chrome as well, though the context was different.)</p> Oh, nothing ironic about it at all: because of our work to show people that a better browser was possible and desirable, MSFT had to make a better browser for all the people who didn’t know about or choose to use Firefox. My awkward phrasing there was just a reference to how I felt about IE7 at the time, even though typically one doesn’t enjoy a competitor releasing a dramatic improvement to their own software.

We can have more moments like that, and we will. (I think we did with Chrome as well, though the context was different.)

]]> By: Jason Orendorff http://shaver.off.net/diary/2009/11/09/five-by-five-in-the-pipe/comment-page-1/#comment-140694 Jason Orendorff Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:34:51 +0000 http://shaver.off.net/diary/?p=3962#comment-140694 <p>You say it a little ambivalently, or ironically maybe... but I still think IE7 is one of Mozilla's greatest achievements. Have you changed your mind about that? Just every aspect of the thing speaks of greatness: the scale of the effort it took to force that to happen, the long odds, the symbolism, the practical effects, the long-term impact.</p> <p>Maybe it didn't advance the Mozilla manifesto principles much, directly anyway. But the way I see it, IE7 was nothing less than total victory in Mozilla's first major, defining struggle. In the next five years, can we have some more moments like that? I only wish.</p> You say it a little ambivalently, or ironically maybe… but I still think IE7 is one of Mozilla’s greatest achievements. Have you changed your mind about that? Just every aspect of the thing speaks of greatness: the scale of the effort it took to force that to happen, the long odds, the symbolism, the practical effects, the long-term impact.

Maybe it didn’t advance the Mozilla manifesto principles much, directly anyway. But the way I see it, IE7 was nothing less than total victory in Mozilla’s first major, defining struggle. In the next five years, can we have some more moments like that? I only wish.

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